Virtual
War Memorial
Australia

Grant Fairley National Serviceman 1969 Interview 4/10/1984

Qn: How would you describe your life before call-up?
I was a national serviceman. There was no difference between army and nationals. The only difference was, one was there for the career, and one because he happened to win the lottery. It’s the only lottery I’ve ever won in my whole life, so it doesn’t say whether I was opposed to it or for it.
Qn: Describe your feelings about being called up.
Obviously the opinions and or feelings would, without doubt, have to be very much different during that experience of life, to what feelings are now, right? And I think that’s pretty important, particularly when the majority of national servicemen accepted what was applied. We’re going back quite a number of years ago, and I think those people then are today’s senior citizens of the community, so it’s another generation and in the majority, it was reasonably all accepted as the government of the day’s decision.
Probably back then, 2 years was a long time, but in today’s thinking, it’s not very long at all. In retrospect, I don’t have any distortion or doubt that the Government was wrong in their conscription legislation.
Qn: Did Nato Service hinder any plans you wanted to develop at the time?
It did interfere with my life, dramatically. At the time I received my call-up notice, I did apply for a deferral for 12 months on the grounds of hardship in the family. My mother was a widow and I was part of a large family. It was important that I had time to restructure things accordingly which would allow me to be conscripted and not throw hardship on my mother and family. Of course it was a bit of hot potatoes because I had to appear in court. I had to have a letter from my employer to say it would affect that particular business if I was drafted. I think I was given notice of 28 days, and it did interfere with my ongoing employment opportunity at that time. I was in a very responsible position even at that age. I was a salesman. I was also in motor-racing, and I remember any leave I had I used to come home and do my motor-racing.
Yes, I suppose it did have quite an impact on my ongoing future, most definitely.
Qn: What was the standard of training like?
For basic training all national servicemen went to Puckapunyal in Victoria. Regulars, I believe, went to Kapooka in NSW. Basic training was 12 weeks, then core training, then further training, and from that, you were allocated to a unit. You had a choice of what your preference was, then over together as that unit. I joined the transport unit.
One of the problems was that NS has limited opportunities for promotion because the Army knew that they’ve got this guy for 2 years, and you can’t do very much in 2 years. But I must add that any NS or individual that had a uni degree of high education were generally put into the ranks of 1st or 2nd lieutenant after certain training, as they were generally singled out and sent to officer corps. I remember quite vividly when I was posted back to Adelaide that the unit commander was an NS 2nd lieutenant who incidentally did sign on. Maybe he felt with his good qualifications he had a lot of security. That is about the only difference I was aware of.
Qn: Did you accept an NS as your superior, rather than a regular?
Different strokes for different folks. I preferred to be one of the boys. His tended to be an isolated rank. If we didn’t have leave for a weekend, you always had your mates, but the officers had a bit more starch on their collars and the stiff upper lip, and being that type of rank they couldn’t project too much humanity.
The army is discipline and if they show a bad standard, then it’s like any successful business or company. If your management is sloppy or slack, then it goes down right through, right? I think it’s without doubt, excluding the British Army, that the Australian is one of the best in the world with our standards of discipline and training. I think we’ve got something, more so back then than today, and I speak in both a military form and in a general form, we’ve got something unique in Australia, and that was the old mateship thing. Because of it we had a very high morale, despite being thrown into the situation and on only $54 per fortnight pay.
Our mateship has grown historically, but that’s gone today, simply because of the influence on our lifestyle. When young people today enter the work force they immediately want to be boss, and when they buy their first home, they want everything their mother and father have. So that element has gone. Our lifestyle has been too influenced by the Western world, whether it be video or break dance, much of our expression is Americanised.

Qn: What happened in Vietnam?
I was sent over as an individual but we all went our separate ways on our arrival in Vietnam. We went over as a group from Sydney to Saigon, but that was a flight for individual reinforcements. In the majority, apart from battalions, the rest were individual postings. As one particular posting for a NS retired, there would be one to replace him, usually in the week before or 2 weeks after, as close as they could get. There were 2 SA battalions that served in Vietnam, the 3rd and the 9th, which were based at Woodside, but of course there were also individual replacements for natural attrition of ranks.

Qn: What effect has the war had on your life?
My feeling towards America as a country and as a people is extremely bitter, and that’s a hangover from the Vietnam War. That’s something that’s still unexploded inside of me, and is really an anguish to me. I just reject everything they’ve got to say. I reject their world opinions, their ideas, their big corporations in Australia. Maybe I wouldn’t feel that now if I hadn’t experienced Vietnam. They’re ill-trained, they’ve got big mouths, and I had no difficulty in getting into conflict with Americans at all.
I do have a level of respect for the black American. I found them quite human. They were reasonable and the white American had a head full of rubbish, superiority, like: ‘Man, we come from the world. Where do you come from? Australia? Never heard of it.’ That’s part of their mentality and upbringing. If you look at the American education system, they don’t learn much about another country. As the black American used to say: white American is trash. That’s true. They’re very irresponsible, ill-trained, big-mouthed. Without their marijuana they’re nothing.
Qn: Do you think the Australian government has recognised the needs of VVets through its counselling services?
My opinion is that it was installed by the Frazer government as a trial facility after pushed for by Senator Messner for only a year or two. It has no ongoing purpose, just there for a cosmetic purpose. They were reviewing it with every budget. I believe that since this Labour government has been in office, part of their platform strategy was that they would conduct a Royal Commission into the use and effects of Agent Orange.
That has taken place, and I believe that the resource of the original VV facility has probably become a bit more serious in its function. That is, ‘Let’s shut them up, see what we’ve done for the individuals with problems due to their Vietnam experience.’ Of course, Labour is a more humanitarian government. Historically it is more compassionate to people but, as a function, it’s still way off the road, out of touch.
Qn: Can you put forward any constructive suggestions?
That’s very difficult but I’ll try. Firstly, there’s got to be a greater understanding of the conflicts, post-Vietnam emotional and psychological conflicts. How can someone like myself feel confident of sitting on the other side of the desk when someone has book open there called ‘Post-stress Disorders, Vietnam Veterans’, and it’s written in America? I’m told that particular person is trying to relate to me and is a qualified psychologist. How can I really feel confident? The particular function of that resource is to really start to look more closely at the extremely complex psychological problems that are associated.
For a start, the government has got to start to acknowledge and show its responsibility. Up until this particular government, between Frazer and Messner, they have passed the buck. I am extremely bitter about that. I think I’m probably right in saying that there are more VVets who have committed suicide than who were actually killed during the war. The rate of VV suicide is dramatic.
There is a double head. Not only are VVs facing the normal mid-life crisis but they have not gained acceptance as VVs. Surely this could have been averted to some degree if the buck had not been passed. They know very well that there are a lot of skeletons in the closet with the use of pesticides and defoliants and many other things that go with that situation. They know very well, like recently they released the Petrov papers because it’s 30 years on and no-one’s going to react, and now Maralinga’s come out. You know, there is more publicity on Maralinga than on the Royal Commission.
They stopped the RC on Agent Orange because they ran out of money. I try to switch myself off but it isn’t really happening. Obviously I’m going through …. Well, a good way to explain it is that the lid’s coming off and I feel even more angry. I often look back and think, ‘What a bloody waste of time.’
I know that as an individual there are a lot of question marks and that the whole issue really wants cleaning up. Besides the medical problems associated, this Agent Orange issue has got to be resolved, and that this country under whichever successive government has got to bring the recognition of individual veterans to the surface – that we’re finally home. We’ve never really been recognised.
Qn: How did you feel on coming home?
I came home in ’65 on a Qantas flight to Sydney, spent the night in a hotel bed by the airport. I flew home to Adelaide the next morning and was discharged in about 5 minutes. So within 48 hours I was out of that particular situation. I was a write-off for 12 months. I can’t remember that 12 months. I know I went back to my job … and then I ended up in repatriation for 5 weeks. I actually took an overdose, so I ended up down there with shock treatment or whatever. I suppose it was the bridge I was looking for. I suppose I really debriefed myself.
Qn: Were you able to accept the general protest against Vietnam involvement?
It was difficult. Maybe in one sense I’ve been very fortunate because apart from the initial 12 months I’ve always been self-employed, and so I’ve never had to go looking for a job, but I’d say it could be a problem when putting in an employment application that you were a VVet. I don’t think that would work for you. I believe a contingent of VVs seem to be treated like a leper colony.
I’ve never had any recognition from the Army Department in Canberra, apart from the sort of medals I brought back from Vietnam. Yes, I do have some recognition. I have a pension of $25 a fortnight for disability. I think through my ill health I’ve had a lot of problems. I’ve had a history of migraine headaches, not so much now, but certainly going back 3 to 4 years since the operation, behaviour problems, aggression. I’ve had 2 to 3 good behaviour bonds and that’s not me. But I suppose a lot of these things you can apply to a person just coping with today’s lifestyle.
Qn: Can a line be drawn between normal stresses of life and the effects of Agent Orange?
There is a demarcation for sure, so it’s difficult for me to establish what I feel is responsible to that experience of life. I don’t know, but I’ve always been a very healthy person, but I know I’m deteriorating. I had to give up a very very successful company business in 1979 due to ill health. I’ve always been a very active person, so I believe there’s a very big question mark about Agent Orange. I think the effects are long term and primarily we’ve all been affected in different ways.
Qn: Were you aware of the presence of chemical sprays?
No, it’s one of those things that could have been taken with your food. I was with transport in Nui Dat, so I wasn’t always in one piece. I think that nothing replaces ill health. If you said to me, ‘I’ll give you a million dollars,’ I’d feel good for about 5 minutes. From a financial point of view, the finance can only be applied as compensation to someone, for example, injured in an accident. It only gives them security to be able to survive for income earning, and acknowledges that they’ve been subjected to a certain experience in life which was not their choice. It doesn’t alter the fact that you might be a cripple, but it secures you. Put it this way, if all those compensation people were put to one side and ignored, what would really happen to them? Don’t you think they’d get cranked up?
If these chemicals can be used for the purpose of the Australian effort there, if it can be proved within reasonable doubt that it has had an adverse effect on the people exposed to it, I believe then that has got to be acknowledged.
Qn: Do you feel that Australian servicemen were used as guinea pigs?
No. I think the Australian government was hooked, sucked in. The problem is that we were part of the SEATO Pact which is similar to the ANZUS Alliance, so if there’s confrontation in Fiji, then Australia can be expected to subscribe to that crisis. If Hawke gets a telephone call from Reagan to say, ‘Get your nuclear ships over here,’ then we really can’t do much about it. We’re part of it. I think that was the situation here. We were part of SEATO that subscribed Australian troops and we were counted on by America to commit certain logistics to the area.
I believe that the Australian ethic was very successful. We were respected. They used to say, ‘Phuoc dai lai,’ meaning ‘Australians no. 1,’ I think, because of our attitude of equalisation. Americans looked down on Australians, giving them a hard time. It comes down to the Australian mentality. We are a pretty reasonable bunch of individuals, aren’t we? If you’ve seen the rest of the world …. The face of Australia is changing, but I think the Vietnamese recognised that the small Australian contingent was very effective in its assistance, in its approach to the Vietnamese. Who knows if the Vietnamese were sincere?
For me it’s just an instinct that they were.
Qn: Do you think the Vietnamese refugees were more accepting of Australia because of our successful role?
Yes, whatever Vietnamese are here are aware of Australian involvement in their country. I think they recognise that we are humane. By coming here they probably think that not the whole world’s going to open up, but perhaps they may think that they are now showing their appreciation by wanting to be Australians. It’s very hard to say. The Vietnamese are pretty crafty. They’re good hustlers, it doesn’t matter what, they’ll get it.
The Americans came in with 120 advisors to the South Vietnamese Government, which did not hold elections, causing problems. If you placed yourself in a corrupt, you’d have to be corrupt to survive. I was treated well in most cases, but in others it was different. You had to use inhuman processes. How could you expect these people to trust each other and us if they said yes, then turned around and did the opposite? I can understand why we did not trust them as their families had been subject to that turmoil for years.
Qn: Did the Vietnamese resent our presence?
I don’t think our involvement really concerned them, because while the military were there, business boomed. Plenty of work for the girls, plenty of booze, plenty of money – it was all business, all about producing turnover. I think that’s more important. Look at the American involvement. The Vietnamese had every reason to encourage their stay in their country. It was an economic war, and with enormous wastage. Everything was disposable, even the Armalite rifles the Americans used.
The South Vietnamese did not want to fight that war. Their soldiers weren’t worth a cracker, mainly because of political oppression and their history of conflict.

Val Braendler